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FOR SOMEONE WHO REJECTS A GOD YOU SURE DO HAVE TONS TO SAY ABOUT HIM

WE SURE DID NOT GET HERE BY ACCIDENT

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO BIBILICAL UNDERSTANDING THAT PROVES NOTHING TO ANYONE

THE WISDOM OF THIS WORLD THAT YOU ACCEPT IS FOOLISHNESS TO GOD.




Hi "Monarch",

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about god.

You said:


FOR SOMEONE WHO REJECTS A GOD YOU SURE DO HAVE TONS TO SAY ABOUT HIM


Well, not "tons", really: just one short book of a few chapters. Hardly anything at all compared to what believers have written.

But, of course, I have as much right to say what I think (and as much authority and knowledge on the subject) as anyone else. I'm not boasting, just pointing out that no one knows more about the unknowable than anyone else. That makes you and I as much an "authority" as a Moses or a Paul.

What we do know, however, is that a concept with inherent contradictory attributes (such as a square circle or an all-powerful all-good all-knowing being) cannot possibly exist.

WE SURE DID NOT GET HERE BY ACCIDENT


Define "accident"; maybe I agree with you!

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO BIBILICAL UNDERSTANDING THAT PROVES NOTHING TO ANYONE


What do you think I misunderstood? I have read the Bible cover to cover twice, and studied it for years. I have read many scholarly books on the Bible. I have spoken with ministers of many faiths, and have engaged in lengthy, detailed correspondence with believers. I understand how Catholics, Protestants, cult members, and born-againers interpret the Bible. I also understand where the Bible came from and how it came to be regarded as sacred in our particular culture, just as other books have become so regarded in other cultures.

However, if you are referring to my book, "Can the Bible be God's Word?" you may recall in the introduction that I claimed no particular expertise. If there were such a thing as a "God's Word" it should speak to the common man. I'm not asking people to accept some new "interpretation" of mine based on my expertise. I'm just pointing out where the Bible is inconsistent with itself and with common sense. This does not require any great understanding: just an honest, unbiased reading of the Bible itself.

THE WISDOM OF THIS WORLD THAT YOU ACCEPT IS FOOLISHNESS TO GOD.


How do you know that? How do you know what a being whom you cannot see or hear feels about the "wisdom of the world"? Because of what someone who was a self-acknowledged liar wrote 2,000 years ago in a book which is so easily seen to be full of utter nonsense and contradictions? Besides, the "wisdom of the world" has progressed a long way since then, and I don't see how you could know what particular pieces of wisdom I personally accept.

I'm sorry to be as blunt as you, but I think the Christian clichés you have trotted out are a pathetic defense, and hardly convincing.

--Steve




Steve,

The authority that is needed here is not any human authority at all

Of course being an unbeliever I understand tour delema.

The authority of the WORDS OF GOD is God himself

"For what man knoweth the things of man, save the soirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God kmoweth mo man, but the Spirit of God. Which things also we speak, NOT IN THE WORDS WHICH MAN'S WISDOM TEACHETH,but which the HOLY GHOST teacheth; comparing spiritural things with spiritural. But the NATURAL MAN( this is the unbeliever where you are at now) receiveth NOT the things of the SPIRIT of God: for they are FOOLISHNESS unto HIM: NEITHER can he KNOWTHEM,because they are SPIRITURALLY discerned. I Corinthians 2:11-14.


I AM SURE THAT YOU CAN WIN ANY ARGUMENT WITH ME OR ANYONE ELSE BUT STEVE YOUR CONTROVERSY IS WITH THE WORD OF GOD NOT ANT MAN.

Your futere is in your hands. tou can believe the WORD OG GOD or NOT that is tour own choice.

If you make the wrong choice you will NOT be able to blame anyone but yourself.

Monarch Bible Ministries King James Bible




"Monarch",

Well, it is human authority after all. Who told you the Bible was "God's Word"? Wasn't it humans? Who voted which manuscripts would be part of the Bible? Wasn't it humans? Who wrote the Bible? Wasn't it humans?

Anyone can write a book and claim that it is "God's Word". You can do it, I can do it: anyone can do it.

The Bible is not the only book that makes this claim. The Book of Mormon, for instance, claims that it was dictated to Joseph Smith directly from the lips of an angel of god. Using your same logic, I guess I should believe this claim too: it claims to be the "Word of God" so therefore it must be the "Word of God."

If I'm going to accept the Bible on the basis of what some humans have claimed about it, then to be consistent I'll have to accept the Book of Mormon, the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, the Tao Te Ching, and the Koran as well.

So, either I accept every supernatural claim and somehow ignore the contradictions (living my life in total confusion and delusion) or I use some sort of standard by which to judge which human claims are true and which are false. I have opted for the latter, and my standard of truth has found that the human-written Bible does not live up to the human claim that it is "God's Word". (For the reasons I have abundantly pointed out in my online book.)

You are committing the fallacy of assuming your own argument. I don't have any issue with the "Word of God" because no one has ever presented me with anything that remotely resembles such a thing.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There is no evidence that the particular book your particular culture holds as the "Word of God" is in fact the words of a god.

If there were such a thing as a book which contained the "Words of God", then it wouldn't be full of contradictions and impossible nonsense. It wouldn't state as facts things which we know are untrue. It wouldn't glorify a "god of love" who ordered men to "rip open" the bellies of pregnant women and run "sucklings" through with the sword. It would not have inspired centuries of hatred, bloodshed, torture, slavery, wars, witch hunts, trials by ordeal, the burning alive of heretics, genocide, anti-Semitism, pogroms, the suppression of women, the suppression of science, shunning, the bombing of abortion clinics, death through refusal of medical procedures, death from handling snakes and drinking poison, homophobia, book burning, animal abuse, intolerance, censorship, and on and on…

I don't find myself in any dilemma whatsoever regarding this subject. Nothing could be plainer to me than that the Bible is a bunch of crap written by primitive (and for the most part largely immoral) men who didn't even have much of a clue about the workings of the real physical universe around them, yet thought that they knew the mind of god!

This is why you know that I can win arguments with believers. It's not that I'm clever or smart, it's because I have the truth on my side, while believers have to lug around the mythological garbage of an ancient, barbaric tribe which cannot possibly be true!

You say that I have a choice whether or not to believe that the Bible is "God's Word". No, I really don't. That's not how belief works (except for hypocrites). When you know that something is false -- when you know that something cannot possibly be true (like a square circle) -- then you cannot choose to believe in it. You can only pretend to believe in it. At least, this is the way my mind works (and I assume it is the same for any sane individual.) I cannot ascribe to the thought: "I know this is false, but I believe it is true." Does your mind allow you to do that? Could you choose, for instance, to believe in the gods of Greek mythology? I'm assuming you'll say "No, because I know they're just stories that men made up." Well, I'm in the same boat in that I can't believe in the gods of Hebrew mythology for the same reason.

I'm not seeking to "blame" anyone for my ability to recognize lies when I hear them or read them. Far from it; it is an ability I seek to enhance. But if you are looking to assign blame, and if you think your god gave me a brain, then I guess you could blame your god.

If there were such a being as "God", then I think that believing the "Old Testament" was a true account of this "God" would be the biggest insult that one could pay "God".

So, even if I believed in "God" I would still never believe in the Bible.

In conclusion, let me turn your warning around: Your future is in your own hands: you can waste your life on an obvious delusion, or not: the choice is yours. The information I have put into my book should help anyone with an ounce of common sense to make the right choice (instead of hearing only one side of the issue their entire lives.)

--Steve

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